Interview with Arthur White, co-author of Lifting the Darkness

30 years ago, Arthur White and Ian McDowall dramatically met God and were changed from drug-dealing, knife-carrying underworld thugs to all-out followers of Jesus. Coming together as Tough Talk along with Joe Lampshire, their passion for God took them onto the streets and into prisons, churches and schools telling everyone they could about the love of God. Still going strong, their new book, Lifting the Darkness, shares their inspiring stories of life on the road with their Tough Talk ministry.

Arf, could you tell us a little about yourselves?

I’m now in my mid 70’s and have been married to Jacqui for 54 years with two grown children; a son and daughter and three grandchildren. My roots are in the East End of London. I was raised in a working-class family with two older brothers and a younger sister on a large council estate in Essex. For the past twenty years I have lived in north Cornwall with all my family close by. I was a carpenter by trade, I had a successful building business, and I was also a world champion powerlifter.

Lifting the Darkness celebrates 30 years on the road as Tough Talk. Can you tell us a little about the ministry of Tough Talk and why you wanted to write this book now?

Tough Talk is a registered Christian charity, made up of a small number of men who have all had a “Damascus Road Experience”. We travel extensively around this country, and indeed the world, sharing our stories and our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. After 30 years together we thought it a good idea to get our experiences - the good and the bad - into a book to share as an encouragement to others.

Who have you written this book for?

Primarily it is written for people with a faith in Jesus (the church) and those with a heart to share the Good News (the Gospel) of Jesus Christ.

As you have looked back over 30 years as Tough Talk, you have had the privilege of seeing Jesus transform lives. Some of those stories are included in the book – is there a particular one that stands out to you and why?

There are many stand out stories from the 30 years, and all praise, thanks and glory to Jesus for them all. I think David’s story is the one to stand out for me. Here is a young man, involved in crime, drugs and violence. He saw us and heard our stories on more than one occasion on our visits to Scottish prisons. Not only did he turn his life around, but we also now work with him and he takes us into prisons. All by the power of the Holy Spirit. It still amazes me. Thank you, Jesus.

You are now involved in prison ministry. Can you tell us a little about this – what you do and the difference it makes?

From day one both Ian and I have worked in many prisons in the UK and around the world. As I’m writing this, I’m on a train to meet up with Ian and Joe to fly over to Belfast and speak in two prisons there. We basically do the same at most meetings. We give testimony, lift weights (just for interest), give a gospel message and pray for the guys. We never really know if we make a difference or have an impact, we don’t keep a score card, but we still get invited back and we have had 100’s if not 1000’s of letters from guys who tell us of their changed lives.

How can we best pray for those in prison?

Of course we want all the guys to come to know Jesus, so pray for that and that the door will remain open for all Christian workers in the prisons. Pray for the chaplaincy teams and any Christian staff.

As well as sharing your remarkable stories of God at work, you also want to encourage the church to share the good news of Jesus in this book. What key bit of advice would you give to people who are wanting to do this but don’t know where to start?

It’s difficult to give a blanket answer on where to start. For sure prayer is key, remember you are here to share, not to convert, so don’t be discouraged if things don’t go your way. If you’ve shared your testimony or given a gospel message, you have already succeeded. Don’t expect overnight success or results, it’s a marathon (30 years for us so far) and find fellowship with others who also want to GO OUT AND SHARE THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS.

What was the most challenging element of writing the book?

Where to start and where to end. Not to make it sound as if it’s all about us, how clever we are, how spiritual we are. IT’S ALL ABOUT JESUS.

And what was the most rewarding element of writing this book?

The most rewarding part for me is the knowledge that I’ve been privileged to know and fellowship with Ian and Joe and all the other guys in Tough Talk.

Have you been reminded afresh about God while writing this book?

When you take time to talk, write and think about life in general, it reminds me how faithful Jesus has been to me and Tough Talk. He NEVER changes and this has strengthened me so many times and spurs me to keep on.

What do you hope readers will most get out of reading this book?

I pray people will be encouraged to share their faith in Jesus and be encouraged like us to keep on keeping even if things are tough.

In one sentence, how would you describe Lifting the Darkness?

30 years of an amazing journey of faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

Is there anything we can pray for you?

For doors to continue to open, for wisdom and strength to keep going, for financial support, and for the return of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.